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Circuit Races, Good? Bad? Any feedback would be great

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Great Post man, now that is the kind of response I was hoping for. Intelligent, well thought out and some great ideas. Thanks

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PoBoy_Racing 7/29/21

I Really like the idea.  After reading all of the comments, I would like to list my opinions

1) I would like the race to be both drag and Fat Tracks.  Track number doesn't matter to me, but 50/50 would be really good if possible.   How about a 2 car team.   1 car is for the drags and 1 car is for the Fat-Track?      Teams sound like a good idea to me.  Now will this be teams randomly picked from a hat for instance or teams set up prior to the races?                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2) Since we have builders from all over and from different countries, I would suggest a long lead time to announce the races, have the cars built/tested and then shipped. Sometimes packages to/from Aus can take up to 4-6 weeks due to other issue's.  I would hate for potential builders to miss out do to mail times.                                                                                                                                                         3) As for a "mid-point" for vehicle tune-ups, that is really a good idea!  But on the other hand it is a logistical nightmare.  I would hate to be the person, who has to ship out every vehicle to their team owner and then the person/track who has to receive and account for these vehicles.  Also give each one an inspection to insure there is No Damage or that the weight has changed, just an example.  Lot of money mailing cars around.                                                                                                                  4) There are a lot of experienced and in-experienced (long time vs new) builders in our community now.  So as an example with the DIRS, cars were sent in and time trials were completed.  This was done at Stop 1 Trans Diecast Racing (nice Track by the way!!) where these time trials were completed.  The ones who made the cut-off raced and were in the DIRS.  But what I liked was that the one's that didn't make it TDR had consolation races for them, so they could at least see their cars run and gain some knowledge and how their builds act.   Lot of extra work for him, but I think everyone really appreciated it.                                                                                                                                           5) As is typical, people sign up and then for some reason or other have to back out, so there should be a back-up list of people who can fill those spots, if they didn't make the original sign-up list.

  • All great ideas for sure. Just very very time consuming and expensive. I do like time trials and might try to implement some of that into this. Maybe a time trial where you have to be top half to make the trip around the country and the lower half have a tournament that would just consist of my two tracks. — BlueLineRacing
  • I would even be willing to be “halftime support”. As in, send me half of ClassA and i would package and redistrubute to individual homes. I just feel that as a participant, i owe it to hosts to be as supportive as possible. — CaShMoneyBoyS
  • I do dig the idea of sending 2 cars and then maybe the driver selects which car races the first half and which the second. Certainly it's an extra shipping nightmare but in general might be a cool idea for a smaller field. — redlinederby
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Healer_Racing 7/29/21
2021 Rated Rookie

I think circuit races are great.  To me, it's fascinating to see how the same group of cars perform on different tracks.  

The only feedback I would offer to anyone coordinating a circuit series here on redlinederby would be to set up the series similar to how Brian set up the Pro-Am event.  What I mean by that is to create the "main" thread for the series, and then create individual "sub-threads" for each race or event.  Then attach the sub-thread links to the original post on the main thread. I think that's a good way to organize the information for each race, post the videos, and report the individual race results.  That being said, I'm sure it's a lot of extra work for the series host.  

I am really enjoying the BlueLine 60g circuit (obviously).  I love watching Fat Track races, but I am here for drag racing.  That's where my heart is and I appreciate that BlueLine has put in so much effort to coordinate the 60g circuit series.  I also appreciate everyone who has been willing to host a race.  It takes a village, or something like that... 

  • Content organization and management is a big key, IMO. Whether here on this site or elsewhere, making information easy to navigate and reference is very important. Content shouldn't live exclusively as video, nor should it be just words on a page. There's a balance and the content should include both. Personally, when I click a headline and it's only a video, I usually don't watch it. I'd rather read a quick summary to get the gist of things and then maybe watch if I need more. Some people like watching, some people like reading. No reason there can't be both. Is it a little more work? Yes. Is it worth it? Yes. — redlinederby
  • And to tack big goal of the RLD site is to try and make it easier to manage your race content. I'm always open to ideas on how to make that better and easier for everyone. Let RLD be a tool, not just YouTube Jr. — redlinederby

Love the topic, BLR, and love reading everyone's comments. I feel your PROs and CONs are very fair and legit observations. I would like to extend some additional insight as both a track host and builder. No one will hurt my feelings if they agree, or disagree. First, I truly think that 64 cars is very doable in a drag format. In my personal opinion, I feel the max for an open track circuit should only be 32 cars. Just keeps things simple. But 64 cars going head-to-head will go faster than 32 cars on open circuit. Mostly due to more replays being prevelant on open tracks.

Next, consistency is key when it comes to any circuit. You need to program your followers, builders, and fans. Having a consistent schedule on a specific day (time of day not important) keeps folks knowing exactly when the races will occur and tuned-in. Especially for a long circuit that goes the entire year (or most of the year), people need to know. Just like college football season. Everyone knows to tune in every Saturday in the fall. This also plays into dependability of a track owner. If a track owner has a difficult time commiting to a schedule, it doesn't mean they are a bad track host. It simply means it is not their Bailey Wick, and that is okay. So maybe participating in a circuit is not best for them. Now consistency just doesn't stop with content release, but scoring format as well. If scoring and brackets are universal across all tracks, there are no surprises and people know exactly what to expect. No opportunity for folks to gripe about the turnouts or results.

Now comes the hard part... choosing which track owners to approach. If you don't know a track owner personally, it can be a crap shoot because you don't know what to expect. A common hiccup I believe is when tracks with similar production value/skill team up. It seems to be the most sense, right? But not necessarily. I think it's better when the track owners are like-minded. This means less chiefs, easier compromises, and less surprises. You know what you are going to get by creating a partnership for a circuit and this also plays a part into consistency.

What I share now is just minutia and optional. For example, if you have 6 tracks or 8 tracks, maybe decide on allowing a track host to conduct minor graphite dusting at the halfway mark through the circuit. Nothing too involved. Just a simple tap of graphite into each wheel and an easy grind with your finger for 5-10 seconds. Now this all depends on builders too, because some builders may be protective of anyone touching their builds.

Another option is building two identical cars. Same casting, same weight, same wheel job and paint. If for whatever reason the primary entry has any issue, you have a replacement. No need for a track host to worry about opening a car because maybe a track host doesn't feel comfortable modifying cars.

If I think of other things, I will edit my comments, but those are the ones that are on the forefront of my mind. Cheers to BLR for starting such a very thought provoking topic.

I have said this before and I will say it again.Fans need to know drivers, cars and builders.  Fans need to hate some drivers and love some. They need to know the drivers cars and teams before they can love/hate competitors. I have seen some improvement in regards to more consistent entrants. I will be helping this process out next week. 

In regards to poor performing cars, builders should be allowed to submit up to 3 identical cars, just like indycar and nascar. before every event at each track the promoter should run a qualifying time trial with all cars and their backups to determine which car of a builder works best on a track. now builders can submit multiple setups or if a car breaks they still have a chance.

  • That all sounds great but who can handle receiving 100 cars per tournament? Keep in mind 99.9 percent of us have jobs and families and other obligations. We are volunteering our tracks and time for the love of the hobby and competition. 3dbotmaker does this for a living and was overwhelmed when he received a couple hundred cars in 2020 and is still racing them 18 months later. If I could do this for a living I'd be glad to but that just isn't realistic. Build them fast and build them to last. — BlueLineRacing

As a race host who literally just finished a 5 month-long event, I love it.  While it can be fun, one of the most time-consuming bits of editing is the initial setup for a tournament.  That's not even including all the physical logistics (changing track decor, receiving and returning vehicles, etc.).  Not surprisingly, I'm also a big road course fan.

I think a combination of drag and road courses, both short and long distance,  is a great way to test yourself as a builder. Some cars would be shown to have strength in drags and some in road.. building one that would do well in both... now that would be something.  But hey I'm new to diecast racing.. only entered in my first 2 so far and haven't even raced yet... I want to be able to build a great all around car. 

  • Totally agree with you .... A Builder should be put to the test of one build for one EVENT, so if the event has two drags and two road courses, then the build that you enter ( one ) is the build that goes through to the end. — RoadrageRacing

There are definitely pros and cons to a long series. I think it partly depends on the intention of the channel. I love diecast, but I run my channel with the intentions of one day making a profit. I can tell you I've been frustrated with this endeaver quite a few times. Also the likelyhood of that actually happening is slim to none.

So with that in mind; I want to maximize the views, participation and amount of attention I can attain for my channels sake. When it comes to a stand alone tournament ran solely by me. I'm slowly seeing the 'risk' of running a long series.

On one hand it could be great and if the stats are up from the beginning you can keep the trend going for a long time. On the other hand, if it flops from the beginning, it is hard to recover from and then you are stuck running a series that isn't going to pull in the views you want. I experienced this with the Party Wagons Tournament I ran. It started off okay, then quickly dropped and for some reason YouTube didn't promote that content that much. It was demoralizing getting lower views than expected, and then to have to keep posting the videos to complete the series. But I take that as a lesson learned and I think I understand the cause.

So on a Sole endeaver I think it is risky and good to know going in to set expectations. I'm not saying don't do long ass tournaments though, because they can be a lot of fun. A few tips on how to avoid this sort of experience though:

One thing is to plan breaks in the series. So its not the same thing over and over for months. I did this with King of the 621. That series as a whole performed as expected and steady. but there were times when It felt like it was getting old. So I purposely stopped the series for a few weeks to run something else, and then picked it back up again. This was great, because it brougth back the hype for the series basically.

Another thing is to develop a series that doesn't need to run back to back. Where each video is its own stand alone event, but combined it is a part of a bigger series. I sort of do this with Picks4Pinks. Each video is its own thing, but I space them out and they all fit the same theme. I really am going to do this with my new event called Contender Series. 

Thats a few ideas that could help. But overall from mym experiences, I'm going to be focusing more on shorter tournaments that way if they don't work out. I can move on to something else.

Now with a team of tracks, I'm not entirely sure of the answer. My experience in the DIRS has been great. But if you pay attention to the tracks involved, we started with a huge bang with TDR and then dropped drastically on the next few tracks. I think everyone invovled did a great job, but there were a few things that could of been done to make it a more successful endeaver. With that said, DIRS is the only series of its kind and probably the most popular multi track series around so I'm super greatful to be a part of.

I will say collaboration is a great way to grow for all channels invovled and they are a lot of fun. They come with work though! I'm working with 3 other tracks to organize the YDS series and I've put a ton of time into planning already and we haven't even posted the rules/sign ups yet.

Just remember my perspective is mostly about YouTube and how to grow. Also I haven't 'figured it out' lol. So take my input with a grain of salt. But best of luck with everything.

  • You're pretty spot on with a lot of that. The big diff you pointed out is the intent. If your intent is to make YT money, then that requires a completely different strategy. Any event over a long period of time will be hard to maintain viewership. People get bored. Unless your production value is enough to bring people back, it's tough to make a story that chains over many weeks. — redlinederby
  • @redlinederby 100%. It's still doable, 3D has been doing it for a long time, but I've always thought his story telling/commentary is why people watch him, not the actual racing. but definitely difficult to do. — WeRaceDiecast

Great Post!

I personnally like both styles of racing, but what I don't like is cars falling off the track and cars jumping over crap. I like CAR RACES not car crashes. If they crash on the track, so be it. But when the cars fly off the track because the track is poorly built or the joint connectors suck, I rather not race. I dont normally voice my opinion on stuff like this because I am thankful to even race on that persons track. Also, When doing a series of races, I expect to see my car race every week or every 2 weeks. waiting a month to see one 5 minute race is boring. When the series drags out to long, I know i lose interest in it and it becomes boring. Everyone wants to see their own car race. When you only race 4 cars at a time in one segment. I move onto the next video. If your in the racing game for views on your channel. Do the races in one or 2 segments and your views will be much larger than your 5 minute videos. 

  • Great post Romy. Most people don’t want to hear talking and and long drawn out races. They just want to see their cars go down the track. Unfortunately over the last year with everyone trying to make a living racing cars that has taken a back seat. — BlueLineRacing
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GhostDriver 9/21/21

I can't add much. So I'll just say I am a drag racer first and foremost. That's what drew me to modifying to begin with. I do like the series b/c it gives you an idea how to build for long tournaments and build for consistency.

I only enter fat track races as a periodic challenge--that's it. There's so much fat track/course racing out there, that I'm not really interested in seeing my car on a fat track (even though I performed ok in the Pro-Am circuit race). I'd rather see more pure drag racing because it's pretty scarce. I like the no nonsense drag racing. I'm not so much into the extra stuff. Without BLR it would be almost no drag racing, so I'm thankful he hosts regularly.

The incentive to build for a circuit gets me excited to build the best I can and perfect my craft. So no fat track racing for me.

  • We need to get you racing at DCRX in November. Quarter Mile Challenge. It’s a great drag race — BlueLineRacing
  • Yeah... I never seem to catch the dates early enough. If I can get a ticket, then I’m all in. — GhostDriver

I think this thread brings to light a great thing.  There are lots of options, and we all have different preferences.  If you're looking for no-frills drag racing, you can find it.  If you want a full-on 10-month chaotic road course tournament, you can find that too.  There's no silver bullet that will attract all customers.

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Rusty_Rod 11/14/21

Love circuit racing,Ive, enjoyed this hobby for a few years now,and for me the pros always out weigh the cons, I've always learned something from a bad race or even aq bad year,but to me its fun.I'd like to see a club or 2 hold an all stock circuit geared for guys and gals that are new to the sport of diecast mail in racing,and those that love it ,but don't have the time to set down and build a car.I know quit a few people that would love to give it a try,but don't know where to start,or threr time is limited to buying 1,rip and run and watch it on the job,lol ,you know what I mean.Don't get me wrong I love the modified circuit,and have several modified,and heavily modified cars,Ijust think it would be a great idea.Heck you could even call it the rip and run circuit series, lol

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