Circuit Races, Good? Bad? Any feedback would be great

BlueLineRacing Wednesday, 7/28/2021

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Hi all,

 I'd love to know what everyone thinks about circuit races, real feedback. No need to take the high road or feel like a jerk to be critical of them. I'd really like to know your thoughts on them. I am considering a 64 car circuit tournament that would include some of the best drag tracks in the country if it's something there is a demand for. There are pros and cons for sure. Let's consider them.

Pros

  • You mail your car once and it races 6-8 different times for one cost
  • You only have to build one car to race most of the season 
  • You get valuable feedback on what you're car can do at different tracks for future race consideration.
  • You can test the durability of your builds over time
  • Hosts get a chance to promote their tracks and tournament styles to a larger audience 

 Cons

  • If your car sucks it can be a painful year. Trust me I know, I've been there.
  • No chance to rework or tune up what started as a good car that seems to have lost a step along the way.
  • They take a long time to complete. I'm thinking a 64 car tournament at 6-8 tracks will take every bit of 12 months
  • By race 3-4 the top 4-6 cars that have a legit chance have been already determined.

Your feed back here, lack of feedback and/or enthusiasm will have a huge impact on whether I and maybe some other hosts would be willing to go through with this so please be candid. Also understand we won't be able to make everyone happy but if I see a trend of ideas that seem popular I will seriously take them under consideration provided they are feasible fiscally and time allows.

No need to comment that you would only participate if a track was tested. For any tournament I run it would only be with tire tested tracks and it's hard to have a bad track when it comes to drag racing BUT, I am considering including a fat track or two in the circuit so please give your feelings on whether that is something you'd like to see or not also. Thanks for your time.


Discussion

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I am totally for it.   I think the PROS out weigh the CONS... And if contenders think that the season would be to long then maybe shortening it with less tracks.  But I am all for 6-8 track and would love to be part of it.   I would also love a CROSS TRACK comp.  Meaning like 4 tracks be drag and 4 track road coures.  I think that would really put builders to the test. 

I have been thinking of the same concept and was very happy to read yours.  I see the DIRS, F1 and other series and say what about a drag track series.   

I also feel that it should be like a ligit drag race no fantasy castings or concepts etc etc.. 

Thankyou for posting this and would love to bounce ideas back and fourth with you and anyone to make for this sport to continue to grow. 


  • Great feedback. It would likely be mostly drag racing or all drag racing. DIRS gives a great circuit race for road tracks. If I was to include a road course it would likely only be Commotion Diecast tracks if they were interested unless of course 3dbotmaker wanted to get involved. Haha. — BlueLineRacing
  • I personally think there are a few more tracks (roadcourses) that would fit the bill, Indiana diecast, MTR ( even though he just lost his track tragically), Bay city racers, We race diecast.. Just saying.. I love drag track a as well. But I like being tested.. and i think a series that merged the two would be interesting.. But a drag series is needed... — RoadrageRacing
  • Bay City is another great option. Love that track. — BlueLineRacing
  • Good points, but I have to disagree on the "no fantasy or concept cars" thing. Hardly anyone IS running fantasy or concept or tooned cars .. taking that away effectively kills about 60% of the entire Hot Wheels line. Personally, I get tired of seeing all real cars ALL the time, because NO ONE is doing any of the fantasy cars. I have a bunch of fantasy and tooned cars I'd like to race, but I haven't seen anyone running any except maybe The Cliff and Rust Belt. Even 3SBotMaker was allowing tooned Chevelles on his track ...... — SpyDude
  • You should start a Fantasy Car race. Sounds like there is a demand for it. It’s not for me though. — BlueLineRacing
  • Dope ass idea! — PikeHillSpeedway

I don't do fat track racing so I'm out.


  • Ha, you’re against fat track racing then. I’ll take note. It’s just an idea though might just be all drag tracks. We will see — BlueLineRacing
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Mattman213 7/28/21

I...for once (lol) am with EightOC on this one.  IF its all drag track then I actually really like the circuits.  IF I send something in that sucks then so be it, thats on me but I really like that all that hard work isnt just one and done at one track and I can look forward to numerous races going down.  

I like doing TEAM circuit events too like LOS used to do in the past.  Each builder fields a team of 2 entries and they can compete for individual and team honors.  Ive had it where one of my cars was a FLOP but the other wasnt and it made me at least look forward to each leg of the circuit rather than dreading it.

Matt


  • Good points on all. You know I’m all about drag racing but wanted to float the idea out. One thing about team races two cars per team is that the hobby has grown so much that it would limit me to only 32 teams and I think it would be more popular that that would allow. All good feedback, thanks — BlueLineRacing
  • Yeah that is true and truth be told...I have a hard time finding time to build one decent car these days much less two so its to my advantage to do 1 entry when possible! — Mattman213
  • OH...and I wont shy away from a circuit with fat track in the mix but I dont prefer it. If you do a race on a loopdeloop track then Ill be there front and center but I just like the drag tracks most of all and build accordingly. — Mattman213
  • Be careful agreeing with me. They'll put you on the naughty list where I am. Heaven don't want me and Hell's afraid I'll take over. — EightOCRacing
  • We're doing pretty well on the team circuit, Matt. It's nice having someone to team up with and be able to trade ideas back and forth. — SpyDude
  • Yeah the ProAm (despite the brief drama) has been a blast all around — Mattman213
  • Matt if you want loopdeloops check out Diecast4life on YouTube. Mdg and a few others race there. — EightOCRacing
  • HA no thanks I'm just saying there are a very select few that can host even the worst kind of races and ill happily join in and Blueline is one of em! — Mattman213
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Chaos_Canyon 7/28/21

Hey man, having run the DIRS I totally see where you're coming from.

I love the idea and I like that these long run tournaments give viewers something to get behind, back their favourites etc. The key thing will be making sure all the tracks you get onboard have the same skills, quality (of content and track) and sensibilities, no easy feat. I know you wouldn't take any tracks that aren't built properly, but it's also a visual thing, so how well do they film the racing etc and I know commentary and engine sounds aren't important to a lot of people so that wouldn't feature but shaky cameras in poor light etc can be really hard to watch.

Something to consider is who is ultimately responsible for the competition? In the case of the DIRS, that's me, so if there are issues it's comes back to me to fix them. I was responsible for organising the track order, delivery schedule, match ups etc across all the tracks. Another thing I would suggest is to have a regular schedule, so that everyone knows when races are coming out and where. If they come out randomly at different tracks, you won't get the following (apart from those with skin in the game) and even for the keen watchers it will be hard to know unless there is a published schedule so they know when/where to find the races. This could be the first of each month for example. For us, due to the large number (32) of cars and the distance to travel, we put out videos every Monday US time, for four weeks at each track - which meant an 8 month competition.

As an option for you, and not sure how practical it would be, but to help with a builder having a slow car from the start, or if it gets worse as the racing continues, could the builders send an alternate/team car so if one starts underperforming, they can have the option to swap out?

As for the points stacking up too early and the series being a given halfway through, that has kind of happened with the DIRS, where some of the field defnitiely have no chance of winning after track 6 of 8, however the battle for first is far from over. Also, it is a lot like real racing, where some drivers get ahead early but the battle for first overall can be intense to the very end, so i wouldn't worry too much about that side of it.

What will the format be for the racing at each track for the drivers to earn points? Is it head to head till you get a winner at each track? How do you assign the other positions/points? Is it a round robin so everyone gets to race everyone else at every track? Just curious how you'd handle that side of it.

Happy to discuss my experiences with running the DIRS or to bounce ideas off, if you want to message me.


  • I appreciate the time you took to respond. I do have a circuit race going now so I’m prepared for most of what you mentioned. It is a lot of work for the host but if people enjoy it then I’m good with it. When it come to drag racing I’d love great video and if you see the BlueLine Racing circuit it’s all experienced tournament hosts. That being said, I don’t believe for the drag race community that all the fluff is as important. Most of us aren’t trying to make any money on YouTube we are just trying to compete. Thank you — BlueLineRacing
  • No worries. Really interested how you do the points system for your tournaments, being all the races are head to head. — Chaos_Canyon
  • Check out the tournament. There is a link to it on here — BlueLineRacing
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redlinederby 7/28/21
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Good topic to call out, good research for everyone here.

I got a couple thoughts, I guess. I speak mostly from a host's perspective but even as a participant, the field size is always my hang up...just too many cars.

As a host, 64+ cars is just too much to run, record, and edit to get things done in a timely manner. It stresses me out and I feel people get anxious waiting for results. And there's a point where if you don't turn around the action soon enough, people forget or get disengaged (and I get sloppy).

And that's me as a participant/spectator when it comes large field series (circuit or not). I admit that I'm far more interested in watching when I have a car on the track, but even then, when there's a large field of cars, videos are often released in batches (A,B,C then X,Y,Z etc) and I loose track of where my car is and forget to come back and watch. It could be weeks before all the groups in even the first round are done racing.

The result is I don't watch the whole series and just watch the finals to see who won - and see that I didn't even come close ;) Or, I wait until the results are posted here or on FB and then that triggers me to watch the video. I guess that's okay...I mean, that's just how I consume the content. Not good, nor bad, just my habit.

Now, a large field size might not stop me from entering a car and enjoying the build process. But more times than not, I send it off, hope for the best, and don't really follow-up until I see something that reminds me.

I guess it's not unlike baseball. I like baseball but I don't watch all 160+ games of a regular season, it's just too many. Highlights and recaps are enough for me. But come the playoffs, I get interested and watch more frequently.

Speaking of which...sidenote...what I'd like to see a channel do (even my own) is put together an official recap of a series or race. SportsCenter style - the top plays, the worst plays, and the final standings. Hardcore folks will watch all the videos no matter what but it can be challenging to keep up with big/length races. But I know that's extra time/effort to produce and that can be challenging as well...I mean, I want to see but I don't even do it with my videos, so I can't say too much :)


  • Hope you're not a Reds fan. You know the best way to catch a ball game is the good old fashioned AM radio. Have it on in the car or no matter what your doing. Great background noise and goes good with a cup of coffee. — EightOCRacing
  • Your idea at the end was basically what the DRN (DSPN) was going to be but then I had to be fully up to date with every race and all the details in order to do it, hence why it's a brief clip to show people and if they like it they'll go watch it (hopefully) style of the program now. It would be great if someone had the time to do a full show round up like that - although I was thinking about something like that for the end of the DIRS. — Chaos_Canyon
  • To be honest, I watch race hosts who have story lines and all this extra stuff that I know they put loads of time into and I barely watch any of it. I also never watch replays and I’m not offended or not there’s at all if someone skips ahead on my videos just to see the results they were interested in. I think most people do that. You wouldn’t have a life if you fully watched all the diecast racing out there. Just to be clear my original question wasn’t how to make a great YouTube channel it was more of how to effectively host competitive tournaments in a timely cost effective way that would get cars on more tracks across the country. My races are pretty bang bang, no replays, no story lines, no commentary and it’s the same with most of the drag hosts. Not sure how much those could be cut down. — BlueLineRacing
  • I did ramble on a bit :) but I was just saying that a 64 field event is too big, both as a host and to watch. The logistics of cars going from place to place is the easy part, but it all boils down to people's time & schedules and that's a HUGE variable. It's just tough. — redlinederby
  • Also, another sidenote, for EVERYONE - for the love of Pete, please provide time codes in your YouTube descriptions for each race/match/group whatever. Just makes it easier for everyone watching. — redlinederby
  • Yeah 64 cars is a lot. Hobby is just so popular that you leave a lot of people out with less. I’ll have to reevaluate that — BlueLineRacing
  • I might have to do a highlights reel of the Sock Hop Slam....I mean, I have a little footage to use... — IndianaDiecastRacing
  • The official recap is dope as hell! I’d love to watch that and I know you die cast famous folks would be lit to see your car on a top passes list or something like that. — PikeHillSpeedway
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DXPRacing 7/28/21

Personally, I really enjoy it.  I do not enter every race because of time and since that is the case, I get to follow one build on multiple venues.  It also shows where I can get feedback on certain tracks.  I just wish there were more long tracks.  I have enjoyed every circuit that I have built for no matter if my car sucked or not.  


  • I was just saying this today. Would love to see a couple NICE half mile tracks in a drag circuit. — Flip81
  • I would build one if I only had 40ft of straight space. I am really happy with my 1/4 drag however. — DXPRacing
  • Are you looking for a long road course or drag track? — Midwest_Diecast_Raceway
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SpyDude 7/29/21

Okay, so my pair of Lincolns:

As a newcomer to the world of diecast racing, I'm enjoying the variety of tracks and races being held, both drags and road courses, and seeing my cars running down several different tracks.  Got some good competitors on here.

I know a lot of the races are 'one and done' or 'two and through', which is generally okay with me (the round robin is nice, too, because I get to race everyone, and not just one person.)  However, something I am NOT seeing is the bottom half of the brackets.  When you make up the top eighteen bracket of those who are moving on, then show the ones who aren't moving on, and their times.  I don't mind if I don't make it into the top eighteen, but at least let me know what my fastest time was when I get eliminated so I have a base point to go on and maybe try to improve it.  If we don't know how good (or bad) we did, how can we improve it?

Maybe the circuits don't have to be six or eight different tracks.... maybe that can be cut down to four or five. (For instance, the Blueline 60g was four tracks.)  The more tracks that are added, the more work it is for all involved, and then the race hosts don't get to enter in other competitions because they're too busy racing, filming, editing, doing commentary, etc.  We don't really NEED an eight-track circuit .......... it's fun, but horribly time-consuming and eventually gets tiring if you know the car you built is falling behind on the third track out of eight. You may still be running, but you're out of the running at that point.

A lot of the tracks are like, "We only want real production cars, no fantasy or tooned or concept cars." Well, guess what - that just killed about 60% of the racing right there. I don't know why people have such a thing against running fantasy cars. They're fast, too! I was in a race at The Cliff with a Zombot against a bunch of production cars .... the Zombot smoked EVERYTHING. I sent a Lethal Diesel in for the Pro-Am, and another to MTR .. both of them performed well against other cars from more experienced builders. Some of my favorite cars that I built I can't run, because they are tooned or fantasy or one-off concept cars.  Can we maybe have a circuit where we get to run something different once in a while?  Even 3DBotMaker runs tooned Chevelles on his track.........

Dragging: This is where it all started.  Two lanes, two cars, one finish line.. That's about as pure and as simple as it gets. You run against each other, and you run against the clock. Drags are for the guys who are serious about their racing, and they want to get every last speck of speed out of their cars.  i appreciate that, and I like it.

Road courses: What can we say? A lot of us got into this sport because of 3DBotMaker and the King of the Mountain track. The level of detail on many of the road courses is model train and diorama quality, which says a lot about some of y'all's building skills. The total randomness of the races is what makes it fun: a winner on one track might be a dog on the next, with a good amount of fender-banging going on. Drags are predictable to some extent ..... wide-open tracks are not.

The Pro-Am was a real challenge.  Four tracks - two drags, two road courses .... one car. Building a car to perform well on one or the other is hard enough .............. building a single car to perform well on BOTH is hard as hell. Time and patience and lots of testing, just like always.

 

  • Sounds like a grudge match is in order. Pick any tuned car you want I’ll give you a fantasy run — BlueLineRacing
  • I do agree with the lack of variety in races (including my own!) in terms of themes and letting in fantasy-type castings. I wonder if it's because they're "harder" to customize and mod? Anyone can mod a Porsche with some weights and such, but how do you mod a dinosaur? True challenge. — redlinederby
  • I think it’s really pretty simple and not to be a jerk or rude. I think most grown men like cars and not a dinosaur on wheels. My kids when they were young would’ve opted for the Dinosaur for sure. — BlueLineRacing
  • Okay, sure, I can see where something like a dinosaur on wheels might not go over well. What about castings like the Road Bandit bus? There are examples of it in the real world, but it’s considered a fantasy car. Lethal Diesel? Chopped and dropped Hummer … sorry, fantasy. The Deora II? Fantasy, regardless that there’s actually been one built. Sorry, now it’s a one-off concept - still no go. The Nash - it was built and driven, but looks like a cartoon car. Out. Same with the BoneShaker. Fageddaboudit! All these great castings are getting tossed aside because they don’t conform to the standards of a “real” car. — SpyDude
  • I’m doing a 100 car Boneshaker race in Oct. Halloween theme. Are you in that? I’ll do a race for something that at least looks like a real car. Dinosaurs, Ninja Turtles, all those animal type cars, no, not me. I see races like that all over YouTube. — BlueLineRacing
  • Yes, I signed up for that one. — SpyDude
  • I think what it comes down to is what the person "personally likes"... For me I am a real car guy... I like the fantasy cars but for me its just not my thing.. Its not to say that I wouldn't enter a fantasy race.. I actually just built two cars for the Death Race.. My point is I think the reason you don't see lots of races for those types is because most people can't see themselves in that type of car. — RoadrageRacing
  • I usually choose a theme I'd like to see because I'm selfish and get excited to see what folks can build in a style I think is cool (see Porsche race). But at the same time, I do try to think about what would be challenging for the builders. How fun is it to mod a Caddy V16 over and over? Dinosaurs, robots, or just funky castings...I'd like to think turning something slow & ugly into something fast & beautiful would be welcomed challenge every now and then. — redlinederby

Sounds like what I'm proposing isn't for you. The good news is there is plenty of what you're looking for to choose from. 

Every car in my races and most drag races I've seen shows it times both on the finish line and when the race is over. So you got me on that one. 

Hi BLR,

I will reply in detail when time permits, however I enjoy a series/circuit of races. When $ending from Aus, a series provides much greater value in general, than a one off event, where you can get an unlucky draw and get knocked out round 1.

Update: I have just read the ton of info you have received on this topic, so will now keep this short and just throw in a couple of thoughts.:

I think the series could be kept to just "laned" drag track, but ensure that there is good variation between the track setups where possible. This should help keep up the series interest, and possibly allow different builders cars to shine at times.. There are also some great "laned road " track set ups ie the old Northern Road set up, and many others I know you have seen. (But each host needs to display the track is proven, and they know how to respectfully handle cars. No demolotion courses)

It would be great too, if  placing and scoring could be mapped out before the series, especially if the theme throughout the series is differing.

Happy to discuss more, or do what I can to assist and support.

Cheers.

I really like this idea. I got back into Hot Wheels racing on the Fat Tracks a couple years ago, so I'm partial to them, but I still love drag racing, so it's win/win for me. And building a car to handle the drag strip and a Fat Track? Well that does seem like a challenge to me, one I would happily undertake. As far as finding established tracks to run on, when my 1/4 mile is finished I'll submit it for approval.

This is a great topic. Let me see if i have my thoughts straight. Pros/Cons listed are obvious yes (im dying each time i see my FR Fairmont! Lol) Road Courses is what got me here, but drag racing is whats kept me here. If it were me, i'd run a 64 car field on 6-8 tracks but i'd seprate the initial qualifiers into A Class and B Class. AClass would then travel to track 2 and BClass would travel to track 8. The series would continue 2,3,4 & 7,6,5 at that point (halftime) all cars would go home for "tune-ups" and then move on to the other half (B Class- 2,3,4 A Class-5,6,7) At seasons end, there could be a battle royale and we'd see final standings. Some A Class could see themselves being ranked lower than some B Class builds. 
Also, i'll say that most road courses cant handle the weights that we can build when it comes to drag racing and that makes them an eliminator for me most times. Fantasy or Factory doesnt matter to me, i just want to build. 
Lastly, my road course is built and im waiting on a timer to finish my little drag strip. My lighting is terrible and camera work is terrible; but im getting there and hope to host soon, to help alleviate the burden on some ya'll. I really appreciate all this community does for the hobby, as it seems to be turning into a legit sport! Lol


  • "Road courses is what got me here, but drag racing is what's kept me here"...perfect. I'm using that :) — redlinederby
  • I love that line too! I kinda dig the tune-up at the half way point idea but cant even imagine the nightmare of shipping everything back and then waiting for it all to come back in time for the next round. — Mattman213
  • Exactly! I threw in the 64 count as it was orginally posted; but the entries could easily 32 (16/16) or even 16 (8/8) either way it would take dedication to the event to see it all the way through. Barring death or taxes; i’d be down for the long haul! Ride or Diecast!! Lol — CaShMoneyBoyS
  • As great as a tuned up would be there is no way I could send 64 or even 32 cars back twice. I would say shipping cars back is the worst part about hosting races. — BlueLineRacing

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