Tournament Racer Disqualification Explanation
I guess there's been some questions regarding my reason for why a particular race team (I will not name drop out of respect for the builder and his race team integrity) was disqualified from my last tournament. In the event rules and restrictions it clearly states what kind of wheels and axles are allowed. Using a pin and tube axel clearely gave him a huge advantage since he was able to remove the wheels and sand/Polish them flat/smooth. Not to mention I have no way of making sure he retained the original axel length of the axel donor he used which could be considered axel stretching. Along with that I have no way of knowing if he actually used a retail axel or swapped for a polish sewing pin which is something I can't distinguish just by first glance or even a closer inspection. On top of that using axel/pins makes it so the axel strength is stronger and removes the off chance that a cat can be damaged during races (Think High Roller I and it's open front end and how fragile the axel is). They then used a pin/tune axel system to attach the wheels back.
-Retail axels and wheels only. FTE/NPA allowed.
The builder used Pin and Tubes axels on all four weight class entries, which are as far as I am aware not retail for any brand unless I am mistaken.
Due to this rules and restrictions violation the penalty was that he would not qualify for victory, therefore forfeiting his first round in the tournament regardless of if the builder won his match or not. I allow d him to still race in his first match though per the rules and restrictions, they would just not qualify for victory. Hence why he was essentially disqualified following the conclusion of the first match race.
Here is a photo of the axels the builder used which are very clearly Tube and Pinned axels. I immediately noticed it as I was unboxing their entries and then checked each other car and each entry was the exact same using Pin and Tubing for axels rather than any retail axels.
I wanted to clear this up as I've had a few people message me about the reasoning and thought it'd be easier to just put it here for everyone to read themselves, straight from the tournament hosts mouth.
Discussion
I would say from now on, whne you post up the tournament rules, "no axle tubes" is on there, along with the "FTE/NPA retail axles only" rule. You may also want to have a disclaimer that "Race host has final say in all decisions."
- I updated my tournament so there is crystal clear understanding and no confusion. — DRIFT_or_DIEcast_Racing
I will agree that being overly-specific is best. It's a headache but really the only way to avoid the dreaded grey area. But also that the template provided when a race post is created is just that, a template. Its intended to be modified to meet the needs of the organizer. It should be treated as prompts for your own rules. Add, remove, adjust as you see fit.
but also props to you for being very transparent and open with the situation.
- I made sure to edit my next event to reflect very specific information regarding axels. Thanks for recognizing that I made an attempt to explain my stance and decision. — DRIFT_or_DIEcast_Racing
It seems that the tubes are what caused the kerfuffle. I would suggest adding a rule in the future that says "no tubes". I think I recall seeing races where "retail wheels and axles" and "no tubes" or "tubes ok" were both stated on seperate lines when I started out five or six years ago.
"Retail axles and wheels only" doesn't specify what modifications can or can't be made to the axles...or wheels. I can fully understand the interpretation that one can do whatever they want to said wheels and axles so long as they are from a mass produced 1/64 car.
You also state that using tubes allowed the builder to "remove and sand/polish them smooth/flat". I sand (and used to polish) my wheels before I even drill the car. And I still consider them "retail". So maybe "stock" or "unaltered" would be a better wording.
As a final note, if you consider sanded wheels no longer "retail" then "obviously polishing axles is fine" makes no sense as it clearly does "alter the original state of the axle" and is of far greater benefit than wheel sanding.
- If you cut the axels and use tubes then how is the race host supposed to know if the builder used actual retail axels and not piano wire/pin heads/sewing needles etc? Also how is the race host supposed to know if they axel stretched lengthening the axel length to make the wheel length longer than a stock axel? Sanding the wheels on the sidewalk is fine, just have to do it without cutting the axel to get them free of the axel. I made sure to edit my race rules to be very very specific so there is absolutely zero confusion, misinterpretation or misunderstanding. — DRIFT_or_DIEcast_Racing
- You can tell if the axles have been lengthened by whether or not the tubes extend past the point on the chasis where the inner wheel originally met the chasis. As far as what axles were used...you can't tell. Ever. What if I use tubes that stay inside the chasis? How are going to know that? Do you take bodies off for pre race inspection? I think adding a "no tube" rule and clarifying whether sanding or polishing is acceptable is about the best you can do. Even at that you're still counting on honor and honesty from entrants. — Ruckus_Racing
- I made sure to THOROUGHLY explain in my next events rules about axels so we should be crystal clear. Should be good moving forward — DRIFT_or_DIEcast_Racing
- I like to believe that almost all of us want win fair and square. But there's always one... Over communicating is your best option. One of the first races I ever entered said that the interior must remain "mostly stock". I built a '33 Ford where I cut out the seat (and only the seat) to add weight. Sent a picture of it to the host. He replied that he wanted the seats to be visible. That's how I learned to remove floors and hollow out under dashboards. — Ruckus_Racing
- I understand and moving forward I will make sure to be thorough and outline all specifics with details so there is no misunderstanding or misinterpretation of the rules. Over explaining the rules is better than under explaining them. — DRIFT_or_DIEcast_Racing
- "If you cut the axels and use tubes then how is the race host supposed to know if the builder used actual retail axels and not piano wire/pin heads/sewing needles etc?" — Chipped_Paint_Racing
- "If you cut the axels and use tubes then how is the race host supposed to know if the builder used actual retail axels and not piano wire/pin heads/sewing needles etc?"....... Why do you choose to disallow piano wire in particular? I only ask out of curiosity to why you wouldn't want them on your track. — Chipped_Paint_Racing
The whole issue seems to be a matter of interpretation. There are 2 things to consider.... the part itself (axle) and the configuration on the part. To me personally, I interpret the rule to say you have to use specific parts, ie: Retail axle (one that comes stock on a purchased car), FTE (Faster Than Ever) or NPA (Nickel Plated Axle). I do not see anything in the rule that states it must stay in "as purchased configuration".
Example from real car racing. Rules state you must use the factory stock intake manifold. But unless specifically stated in the rules, you are free to modify that stock part as you see fit. ie: porting and polishing the passages. The required part is being used per the rules, but unless the rules say "no modification to that part", you should be able to configure/modify however you want, as long as you use the part that is specified.
I hope this makes sense. I'm not always good at explaining things. Anyway, that is how I've always interpreted rules. The Part itself, and the configuration of part are 2 seperate things that need to addressed in the rules. If the rule doesn't exist, you are free to do it.
this is the reason un-intentionally loose rules are a problem.
and not to pick on you, but I would agrue
based upon the rules posted for the race that car was legal
not starting a fight, just stating my opinion
dr
- My race, my interpretation of the rule. I made sure to outline in extreme detail the rules for the next event so go check them out. — DRIFT_or_DIEcast_Racing
- understand, and my opinion — dr_dodge
I would say all the bases are covered moving forward, and we must all be on the same page to keep the hobby moving forward. The gray areas are what spawn debate and resolution to get us back to the black/white and keep a solid foundation, for without a solid foundation the whole house will crumble.
I don't use pins, so that car's not mine.
- I never said it was yours, you're got. DND not a DQ. Your car had extra long axels and rubber tires and kept rolling off the track. — DRIFT_or_DIEcast_Racing
- DND?? — dr_dodge
First off thanks for enforcing the rules for your event to at least try to keep a level playing field. Secondly I look at the pic of that car and the work done to it and my first thought is - wow I'm not interested in those mods or that level of work. As one other person said regarding that level of work - I don't have the time for that. But obviously there are those who enjoy doing such things. I will again suggest we follow the real racing world and create 3 classes of racing
Stock Class - Basically rip-and-race or mail in lube only and factory rivets.
Sportsman Class - Basically all the rules we frequently see now around axels - lightly scrubbed wheels - weight added - etc
Open Class - Knock yourself out etc.
And as in the real world - your car fails inspection - you ain't racing.
- Sounds good to me. Clean and simple rules. — SpyDude
- sounds good — dr_dodge
- I like a simple three class system — Chaos_Canyon
I have a lot of questions about this. I have some cars I want to mod but I'm unsure the rules in totality. I SEE what they are, but, am unclear on terms. So, what axles are allowed and/or recommended? Retail axles that come in box are junk, and have been since redline. Matchbox used to have a pretty solid axle in the early series, but they were terrible rollers. I'd like to use a stronger axle than what comes factory but I don't want to be disqualified for the wrong thing.
- Retail axles basically means no custom built wheels and axles, and no cutting the axle apart to tube them. — ManiacMotorsports
Getting people to follow rules is hard, even ones that are spelled out. In my current tournament I state there must be a number on the roof/hood AND doors and there are about 6 cars that have one but not the other. As that's only cosmetic I let them in, especially as I had 8 no shows so was already short of cars.
Any performance failures I think should disqualify racers though, like you've done here. Same if someone is 1 gram over the limit. You make a rule, they should stick to it and if they aren't sure cause it doesn't specifically state exactly in the rules, then to me it's on them to check they won't be disqualified.
Was it the pins and tubes that come as a kit from AliExpress or was it a hot wheels axle cut in two parts with a brass tube?